Following its national tour to eleven venues from 8 October to 8 November, Santi & Naz by The Thelmas will arrive at Soho Theatre from 21 January to 8 February. We sat down with the creative team, Guleraana Mir and afshan d’souza-lodhi (writers) and director Madelaine Moore.
How did the idea for “Santi & Naz” first come about, and what inspired you to set it during the Partition of India?
We (Guleraana and Maddy) had talked about how Partition is so rarely taught in British history, and Guleraana always had wanted to find a way to tell a Partition story without solely focussing on the horror of the events themselves. Maddy had been interested in exploring those intense teenage friendships that particularly young women tend to have, which often burn so bright in those formative years sometimes blurring the lines of friendship, so we decided to combine the two ideas.
Guleraana, how was the writing process for this story, especially given its historical context and emotional depth?
The writing process was actually a lot of fun! Prior to sitting down to write the script we had all done a lot of research into the historical context and the timeline of Partition. The writing of the play itself then became an exercise of translating the research into moments of action for the characters, to explore how the political and historical context would affect their day-to-day lives. We asked ourselves how would information reach their village? How would it influence the behaviour of the adults around them and the decisions they were forced to make? Which in turn would have a knock on effect on their relationship.
afshan and I work really well together, and because we knew the overall story arc for the play, we were able to turn the story beats into a script reasonably quickly. It was fun to flesh out the characters of Santi and Naz, capturing their personalities and finding moments of humour and play to balance the tragedy. We ate a lot of Indian snacks, drank a lot of chai, googled hot Bollywood actors as a reference for Rahul and generally enjoyed immersing ourselves in different aspects of our culture; something that I definitely don’t get to do as often as I would like. Since we started the project in 2017 I’ve lost all of my remaining grandparents. Writing this play felt like honouring their memory, and keeping the stories of their generation alive for a little longer.
What role did historical research play in developing “Santi & Naz,” and how did Eleanor Newbigin’s expertise contribute to the production?
We started thinking about the show just before the 70th anniversary of Partition, so there were some amazing resources available to us at that time, including Anita Rani’s brilliant BBC series ‘My Family, Partition and Me’ and Kvita Puri’s book, ‘Partition Voices’. We also crowdsourced anecdotes and personal family histories from South Asian team members too, helping inform the storylines. This helped us with the initial thinking about who these girls were and the main story. Later when we met Eleanor it became a case of using her expertise to either confirm or finesse the more general day to day attitudes and lifestyles. Where her knowledge became key was with the historical facts of what happened politically. It’s pretty complex and so we wanted to make sure that while we weren’t focussing too much on depicting the historical events, we were accurately representing the timeline of Partition and how the characters might view those events from their perspective in a tiny village near the soon to be border.
Madelaine, what was your approach to directing a play that deals with such a personal and politically charged period of history?
Obviously I am not South Asian, so I felt a huge responsibility to make sure that I did as much research as possible and that I approached the material with sensitivity and openness to the experiences of those with a cultural connection to the history. A big part of this was about making sure I built a team which was predominantly made up of South Asian artists and ensuring that those voices were prioritised.
Beyond that, it’s really about honouring the lives of these two (albeit imaginary) young women and young women like them. Most Partition stories tend to be told through the eyes of either men, or the people of note involved in the history (again, mostly men!). Having read so many testimonies of what happened to women and girls during this period, we’ve always felt very strongly that the story should centre the lives of two young women who are living through a major historical event rather than the event itself. It’s not our job to teach you about Partition, but it is our job to give the audience a human to human connection with those living through a historical moment. This meant ensuring that we created two fully rounded, relatable characters and a carefully constructed sense of their everyday lives in their small village. Once we had this established, it then became a case of discovering how the events of Partition might slowly begin to destroy this seemingly carefree life and their community. Theatre is the perfect medium to help audiences experience the personal impact of history, so it’s my job to help the actors find living, breathing characters who feel familiar to us. It should cost us something emotionally to walk alongside them for an hour or so, and I really hope that Santi & Naz does that in the best possible way.
The relationship between Santi and Naz is central to the story. How did you work with the actors to bring their bond to life on stage?
Honestly, it’s no different from my approach to any other play in that respect. It’s about using the text to help find out what the intentions of the characters are at any given moment. Obviously as one of the creators of the story, I know Santi & Naz as people very well, but this is where actors are great because you give them a blueprint and they will always use their imaginations and empathy to surprise you with something new you hadn’t thought of before!
Santi & Naz are often very silly and funny, so playfulness in the room is always a top priority to find the joy in these two characters, particularly when dealing with such a serious period in India’s history. I use images and music a lot as a stimulus, and for working with the cast that was no different as this method has been an integral part of creating the show since our first workshop back in 2017. What is tricky with this play is that Santi & Naz start off really quite young and innocent, and although the timeline of the story is only over around 4 years, the partition would have unnaturally matured young people at the time. This means that by the time we get to the older versions of the women, they are very different people having been influenced by all they have experienced. The actors are adults so it takes a bit of trial and error to find the younger versions of themselves, but they always manage to tap into the required amount of silliness, which owes a lot to the way the earlier scenes in the timeline are written, as well as a willingness to dare to find the silliest version of a scene and finesse from that!
What are some of the challenges of telling a story set in 1945 India to a modern audience, especially younger viewers?
We often treat historical stories as being removed from our own experiences because it’s somehow ‘back then’, but actually those people had the same needs, wants and fears as us; to love and be loved, to be heard, to be free etc, so we worked hard to find ways to make Santi & Naz feel as relatable as two young women you could meet at the bus stop today. Had they been around in 2024, we can guarantee you that they would have been all over Tik Tok, and probably Swifties (or in Naz’s case she’d have been a big Chappell Roan fan we suspect!). Santi would have probably been into Anime. Instead in the play they reenact songs and dances from their favourite Bollywood movies, and poke fun at political figures of the time. Santi is obsessed with the village hottie Rahul, and they still get in trouble with their parents for messing about when they should be doing their chores. Guleraana and afshan used various Urdu, Punjabi and Hindi phrases and slang words which helps to ground the characters in forties India alongside contemporary English vernacular to keep the dialogue feeling modern.
What do you hope audiences take away from the play?
Joy and hope, as well as a goal to learn more about Partition… and an urge to go and call your best friend and tell them you love them.