Michael Hajiantonis and Michael Zwiauer talks about their latest collaboration, Put Out his Eyes at Lion and Unicorn Theatre.
MH = Michael Hajiantonis, writer
MZ = Michael Zwiauer, director
What inspired the central dynamic between the princess and the peasant, and how did you approach exploring the tensions of class and power in such an intimate setting?
MH: The initial inspiration was a dream that I had, of this powerful image of a princess and peasant, in a cave, overlooking a city. I found it fascinating, and I simply set out to write a play that would make others feel how that image made me feel, to make an audience wonder in the same way that I wondered. That was it really, I wrote with my gut and followed that impulse and shaped it as I went. And the play speaks to me in certain ways, but those can be different for everyone, and that’s ok. I think the subconscious, especially when it’s given space to create and also to interpret, is immensely powerful and intriguing. Around the same time, I became interested in Symbolist art, and recently went to visit the Gustave Moreau Museum in Paris. Work like that seeks to catalyse its viewers imagination, and that’s something I found very exciting. We want the audience to come away thinking about this for themselves and discussing what goes on and we don’t necessarily want to force any conclusions.
The play is described as a “modern fairytale.” How did you balance the fantastical elements with the raw social commentary, and why was this hybrid style important for the themes you wanted to explore?
MH: So it wasn’t a conscious decision to write a “modern fairytale”, but I do think that describes the play well. Fairytales are very powerful, timeless stories that capture imaginations of all ages. I’m fascinated by myths, mysticism and folktales, but they seem to have fallen out of fashion. Yanis Varoufakis describes the system we are living under as “technofeudalism”, so perhaps a setting like this is exactly what we need to explain where we are at! I also think that in exploring these ideas in more of a metaphorical way, without getting caught up in anything too specific, we can interrogate these concepts more generally. Why do we form hierarchies, and how do they really function? Is it possible to live differently? How can we imagine new ways of being when our ways of imagining are shaped by our environments? And why, after all the centuries of “progress”, do we still see horrific instances of misogyny, genocide, and oppression of all kinds? I can’t pretend to have answers. As a playwright I don’t think it’s my job to have or give answers, but instead to ask the right questions.
MZ: I would agree that setting the play in an imaginary time and place – in the mode of a fairytale – makes it much easier to explore some pretty big questions without having to engage with the minutiae that come with a specific setting. Theatre already requires us to suspend disbelief, so why not choose a fantastical backdrop which allows for more playful exploration?
In a story where social conventions unravel, how did you work with the actors to bring vulnerability and authenticity to such complex shifts in power dynamics?
MZ: I don’t want to give too much away, but we essentially have two characters who react in polar opposite ways to the unravelling of their societal codes. One embraces the power shift and the opportunities this brings, while the other has to deal with their entire understanding of the world collapsing. Both of these reactions are legitimate within the contexts of the play and the destruction that is brought upon the world the characters inhabit. The authenticity comes out of their reactions which are grounded in the backstory of each character. This means we have to work with the actors to ensure they are confident in how their characters might react to this cataclysmic shift taking place within the play. We are lucky with our amazing cast in that we have two actors who think very deeply but also trust their instincts in really interesting and surprising ways. Plus, we are very lucky in that Michael’s script gives these characters plenty of life and embedded experience to play with.
Your previous play, Going Slightly Mad, was deeply personal. How has your artistic voice evolved in Put Out His Eyes, and did your past experiences influence how you approached this narrative?
MH: I had a very clear motivation when I wrote Going Slightly Mad, to educate people, based on my experience, on what psychosis, sectioning and madness actually looks and feels like, and to give comfort to people who have gone through that experience too. After, I spent a lot of time interrogating what the purpose of writing, and plays, was. I knew I wanted to keep writing, but why? I have my politics, but I hated the idea of imposing those, patronisingly, to a theatre audience. Who the hell am I to do that? The idea for this came, and I approached it from a different angle; present this image and idea, that fascinated me, and hope others also find it fascinating. I found that when reading the first draft of it, certain elements of the story resonated with my experience of psychosis. That experience still found its way into my writing, in a very abstract way, that I had not anticipated. I found that very exciting, and I hope it can speak to other people in ways that would be personal for them too.
The cave setting feels symbolic—trapped yet safe, isolated yet transformative. What drew you to this setting, and how does it reflect the emotional journey of the characters?
MH: Again, it all came from a dream, and I tried to stick as faithfully to that dream as possible. I certainly think it’s a powerful image, and a powerful setting. I think there’s potential for it to be a very visually striking and beautiful setting too. I don’t want to influence the audience by saying too much, but your interpretation, trapped yet safe, isolated yet transformative, is very much the atmosphere we are hoping to create.
MZ: Absolutely. I’ve always found there is something special about stories, and especially plays, which are restricted to one location. If a character can’t leave or escape whenever they want, it really forces people to engage with each other and be vulnerable. We all face this dilemma with our phones, which enable us to exist in multiple places at the same time. This can be very entertaining, but often comes at the expense of truly connecting and listening to each other when we’re in the same space.
Put Out His Eyes runs at the Lion and Unicorn from 28th Jan to 1st Feb, 2025. For tickets and information, please visit https://www.thelionandunicorntheatre.com/whats-on