We sat down for an exclusive interview with Gwithian Evans and Marie Williams to discuss their upcoming performance in knife-violence centred double bill ‘He Said/She Said’.
He Said/She Said runs from 21st April-2nd May at The White Bear Theatre – Tickets here
Both plays centre on perpetrators rather than victims — how did you each navigate finding empathy for characters who commit acts of violence without excusing them?
Gwithian: I always try to be curious about everything, rather than judge or condemn. What Richie does in the play is extreme, but it’s fascinating to learn about why he reacted in the way that he did and what led him to that moment. It’s through that curiosity I’m able to find empathy for him. I certainly don’t forgive him, but I can at least understand him more. It’s a valuable lesson in how we treat people in real life as well. Be curious. Also, it’s reassuring to know that Richie is a character in a play, and I will only step into that mindset for a short period of time.
Geebs: For me, firstly take away the label ‘perpetrator’ and call the person ‘someone who has committed X offence’. As soon as I have the instinct to judge, I remind myself to be specific. Instead of saying “Her is a bad person” for example, I try to make factual statements: “Her makes impulsive decisions, she shows a disconnection from the reality of what she has done and often lies”. Being more specific, provokes questions which builds a more detailed picture of a person rather than a binary image of a ‘villain’.
These are intense solo pieces; what techniques did you develop to sustain psychological tension and keep the audience complicit throughout a monologue?
Gwithian: For the majority of the play, Richie addresses the audience, which immediately increases the intensity. Looking people in the eye, very unnerving. The White Bear is an intimate space, so that’ll help to further intensify that. I did a play called ‘DIG’ in 2020 where it was myself and another actor performing to 10 audience members… in a shipping container. That setting alone created more than enough atmosphere. If you want to create tension and engagement, you’ve got to think about the space and the audience in it.
Geebs: Remains to be seen! I imagine that once in the flow of performance, the intensity will come from connection with the audience.
Knife crime is a very real and contemporary issue — how conscious were you of the social resonance of the work while shaping your performances?
Gwithian: This is veering into a spoiler zone so I’ll tread with caution. Whilst both plays have a knife and a crime, they’re not about the wider systematic issue of knife crime in the UK. My focus for ‘Misconduct’ is the character of Richie and his story, which just happens to have a crime involving a knife.
Geebs: I always aim to assess how a show might speak to an audience and how it might be seen in the context of today. I am mindful of not over sensationalising the violence, and asking myself,where appropriate, “is my choice coming from a place of truth?”. On the flip side, there are some very heightened moments in this piece and I don’t want to shy away from the text which at some points is very shocking and intentionally, comedic.
Your characters justify their actions in very different ways — where did you locate the moments of self-deception versus genuine belief?
Gwithian: Writer, Dom Riley, has done an excellent job of detailing where Richie goes back and forth between denial and delusion. Richie will often repeat the same phrase over and over again to convince others and mostly himself of the truth his trying to fabricate. At the time of writing these answers we haven’t entered the rehearsal space, but I know that these moments will have a spotlight on them.
Geebs: There are several moments of self-deception throughout Ladykiller; these were quite easy to locate for me (but of course that is only my interpretation of the text) – I won’t give them away.
How did you approach building the inner lives of these characters beyond the text, particularly in moments where silence or stillness carries the weight?
Gwithian: My approach is similar to all plays I do: Go with instinct. There is always a great deal of planning to be done for the Actor before rehearsals, however I believe too much prep can hinder and stop new ideas emerging. If I arrive to rehearsals with a fully formed character, I have nowhere to go and I will almost certainly find conflict when working with the text. Acting is all about playing and the ‘play’ happens inside the rehearsal room, not before.
Geebs: I concentrate on the things that Her can see immediately in that moment, and I ask myself what does that trigger in her inner world? I have formed my own images of the people in her life that I bring to life in my own head to build her inner world.
As a double bill, the pieces speak to each other — did engaging with the other performance influence or shift your own interpretation in rehearsal?Gwithian: We had a readthrough not too long ago and that really helped to understand how these two plays complement each other. It’s important that they stand alone as two separate plays, with only their theme of violence connecting them. However, both pieces have contrasting energies, and I think Claire’s decision to put Misconduct first is a wise one. Misconduct is a runaway train, a burst of energy. Ladykiller is calculating, methodical and disturbing. I realised in the readthrough how Misconduct serves Ladykiller, almost like a warm-up act.
Geebs: I’m sure it will do. Gwithian is a wonderful performer, and a great listener. I think if the pieces are truly speaking to each other, which I hope they will be, we will feed off of each other’s performance.